Words

[hypatia42]

Skank. Slutty slutty whore. *thoughtful look* Both of these terms have been used in regards to me, in the past week but also over the past year. By people that love me and generally use them in an endearing tone of voice. Not really sure how to deal with that.

I understand that poly people have been trying to reclaim slut as a positive term. I don't particularly feel one way or the other about it. I just can't feel there is any good connotation of the two above other than the one that is being put into it by the people I know. Not really sure there should be good connotations. Its kinda of a strange place to be. I don't particularly think of myself as either one(*see previous post about other people's perceptions). Also, I don't have issues with it since I *so* don't see myself that way. At what point do I need to step in and say something? I don't even know...

Comments

[theladyshannon.livejournal.com]

What are your opinions/perceptions of Ethical Slut and Sacred Whore?

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

I could wish that in this society we had a better way of expressing the sacred through sexuality. Even through a paid service. I have felt that several times in my training to touch people. People need to be accepted for who they are, as they are. As it stands there are few places where that sort of expression is ok, or charging for it is legal. I think I probably have a gift for it. I will also not be using that gift to its fullest extent.

I am the child of a love goddess. People have been coming to me with heart issues since I was able to talk. It makes sense to me that the sacred heart work and sexual nature of people combine.

Does that answer your question?

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

I don't think either of those have been reclaimed to the point where they have positive connotations even within the poly community ("whore" or "slut" by itself, maybe, but not with those adjectives).

Was there context? Is it possible it's an undercurrent of resentment? Either way, I'd pull the speaker aside and explain that it didn't come across as a positive descriptor. And if they can't understand that, strongly consider cutting that person loose from your world.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. See this is where I went with it. Strong possibility in one that the speaker see things in me that she cannot allow herself to have honestly. I don't really know about the other. Me being open about poly and being willing to share that part of myself with people... seems to make people think about what needs they might not be getting met.

[nkcmike.livejournal.com]

Don't let others define who/what you are. Reserve that privilege unto yourself.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Not letting others define me. That is my job. How others see me is a reflection of how they see themselves though. If I am behaving in a way that causes them to lash out at me, call me names, etc. what does that say about them?

[nkcmike.livejournal.com]

"What does that say about them?" Well, I think it's pretty obvious what it says about them. And anyway, who gives a flyin' f**k? It's THEIR problem.

You are who you are, and you seem to be pretty comfortable with it.

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

I'd say that if you're not comfortable with the tag being applied to you, and it sounds like you're not, you're free to say "That's not me."

I don't believe in a lot of "taking it back" style campaigns for english words. "Slut" and "whore" mean very specific things to 90% of the population, and why should you get smeared with that same social brush just because someone is "taking it back" and is calling you that "playfully"?

So yeah, feel free to tell someone "don't call me that" whenever you don't feel it's appropriate. Even though you feel as though it doesn't touch you, since you're not this thing they're calling you, it's a societal label that is unpleasant to have thrown in your general direction, especially since not everyone knows the context.

[libwitch.livejournal.com]

*applauds*

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

Also, reclaiming usually involves either referring to oneself ("I'm a slut and proud of it!") or one's identity group ("Nigga, please."). Using it with someone who you're not certain is okay with it is poor manners.

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Calling yourself something is entirely different than forcing your reclamation on someone else. My family is Jewish, and a long time ago my brother went around calling people in the family "k***s". We put a stop to that right quick, despite his desire to "take it back."

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Oh lord. I am sheltered and am willing to admit it. Maybe this is a good thing... I will take it as such. I don't even know how to fill in the blanks there. I don't need to know.

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

Here's a link if you're at all curious. It's just a pejorative for jews.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Actually no. I don't need to know the details of how people are horrible to one another to know that it happens. I'd prefer to react with, "What? How does that apply here?" rather than the desired reaction of "OMG! How could you use that word?"

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

That's fair, I just wanted to not be vague about words. The word itself is harmless, it's the context in which it's used that's the problem. Much like the words you're dealing with.

[hypanebliss.livejournal.com]

Um. Yeah. :) That is a bit much.

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

Isn't it though? ;)

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Yes, I would never call myself either of these terms. Not terms to use.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

I think I hadn't really considered it before. Hard to be uncomfortable with something that isn't even on your radar. However, these words coming up in the past week and from people that I would like to see more from, seems like a good time to ask, "Why do you feel that calling anyone, much less me who you say you like, these words? Is there something you see that you want in your own life that you have yet to manifest?"

That sort of thing.

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

I agree, but there's still the gut reaction of hearing something like that applied to you by someone else. From the post, it doesn't sound like it was entirely pleasant.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

No, you misunderstand. There was no reaction from me at all or I would have said something at the time.

*sigh* I have been coming up against situations in the past month or so where I had to make a decision whether or not to say something not based on my comfort level, but on my evaluation of the situation and the root of it. If I am ok with it then you'd think it'd be a non-issue. But I am curious about the root of the statement itself. The cat coming out to poke at the mouse kind of game.

[eolas16.livejournal.com]

Gotcha. I do understand, it's not that you were uncomfortable/discomforted by it, it's that you need to make up your own mind as to how you feel about it.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and if I need to bring it up to these people.

[onyxtwilight.livejournal.com]

I'm fine with the redefinition of 'slut', because it implies rethinking the feelings around the behavior, and I'm in favor of that. 'Whore' is rather a middle ground; even sacred whores got PAID, and if there's no money changing hands, I'm not seeing it.

'Skank' is bothersome, though. I can't really find a good context for that word, even in the most sex-positive end of the pool. Who the hell said that about you, and to what were they referring? I don't get it.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Who the hell said that about you

You don't know them. Seriously tortured soul who is fighting between jealousy that I can get my needs met and admiration that I am willing to take that chance.

You're right though. I don't get paid to have sex with my loves. I do not give sex freely, as a slut. I don't think the term applies.

[arielmn.livejournal.com]

I am know I am a bit more conservative, but I can't see any of those names being a positive.

I do accept that taking back those words can be powerful, but I guess I am struggling to find the context that those words would be playful or fun.

I would try and address the speaker.

[libwitch.livejournal.com]

I just can't see "skank" ever as a positive or endearing thing, no matter from whom, or how its used. Maybe because it is simply one of those words that has always grated on my nerves.

"Slut" I would be a bit more offended about, I think. To me a slut is someone who just has sex for the sex of sex, regardless of consequences. No thought, just action. A whore does it for money; which I don't think is a bad thing all the time. Hell, sometimes whores are more honest about it then sluts.

But that is just *my* definition, others may differ.

(There is nothing wrong with someone who enjoys sex, or offers it freely, but is not without thought and responsbility.)

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

someone who enjoys sex, or offers it freely

I agree and... I am not that person either. I don't offer sex freely and these people know that. The more I think about this the more my curiosity level rises. Where are these statements coming from? etc...

This is a potentially dangerous line of questions.

[libwitch.livejournal.com]

I acknowledge I hardly know you, but there was nothing about what I saw of you at FSG or have seen in this journal to make you think that you would be that person. Which you are right, makes that line of questioning dangerous - or at least uncomfortable.

[hypanebliss.livejournal.com]

A and I use "slutty slutty whore" as pretty much a meaningless connotation. Based upon the charged responses above I'd say people really take that completely at face value. I really get tired of folks constantly picking and choosing when statements are evaluated literally or not. If we're all going to shoot for making impeccable statements 100% of the time that is fine. But I think that it takes a lot more time to truly think before speaking. I don't believe people are accostumed to that sort of scrutiny in their language structure. With writing it's easier. We can go back numerous times looking over and over again while analyzing.

"Skank" is uncalled for in my personal view. I'm not sure I could say that one without a negative connotation.

And all of these depend on context, the setting in which they are used, vocal tonality and facial expression. None of which transfers over into LJ so it's impossible for the folks above to get a good vibe for the situation.

However, as always in life...if you are offended by something and it hurts your feelings I think you should speak up. :)

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

None of which transfers over into LJ so it's impossible for the folks above to get a good vibe for the situation.

Yes and I get the feeling I need to make a post about questions posed in my lj. They are mostly questions I need to ponder for myself.

As for A and yourself, you both use it differently. Neither in a derisive manner but the other wasn't used that way either. I will admit that having "skank" applied to me made me notice more the other derogatory words people use to describe me. Even if done in a loving manner, it says something.

A didn't start using that on me until she started to get to know my poly habits. Makes me curious. Me having an open process for things means that I have to deal with others processing through their feelings on my process... Wow that is kind of a profound statement there. Kinda round about but it says a lot.

[arielmn.livejournal.com]

J and I will call each other names, but that is when the name is the furthest descriptor of how we are behaving. He has called me a harpy, orge bitch when I have done or tried to do something very nice.

Does that make sense? If the same names where used in an argument, my reaction would be quite different.

If he called me a slut it would probably be under similar circumstances, but whore or skank would be too far for humor's sake. (YMMV)