(no subject)

[hypatia42]

I've run into this a bit in the past few months. Why is it odd for a woman to want to be in a threesome with two men but it is completely normal and accepted for a woman, or a man for that matter, to want to be in a threesome with two women? Are bi-sexual males that rare?

Comments

[theslice.livejournal.com]

Speaking for myself, I would be in a MFM threesome, but would not be doing anything bisexual.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Good point. What I would desire of a MFM would not require either male to be bi. I still have not found males willing to do this with me though. I haven't looked hard. I try to have my relationship be meaningful things. But I would think it wouldn't be as odd as it seems to be.

[theslice.livejournal.com]

Even in said situation, even if male parts touch, it's still not bi. Not odd in my mind, but I'm not 100% mainstream, either.

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

Ditto, and have been in the past.

[bleuberi21.livejournal.com]

i have often wondered the same thing.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

What has led you to wonder this? Experience? Conversation? Desire? I'm curious. If you are willing to share, please do.

[bleuberi21.livejournal.com]

desire. conversation with guys that i've dated regarding fantasies have always led to "oh, i wouldn't do that, but if it were you and another girl".

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Right sexist bastards. What makes a MFF more ok that a MMF? You're still having sex with three people for pity sakes.

[bleuberi21.livejournal.com]

i know *sheesh*

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

Homophobia in Western/American society is primarily focused on male-male interaction; females are seen as unthreatening.
Being in the presence of a naked man is automatically threatening to male ego/sexual identity as promulgated throughout the culture; redirecting the other male's attention on a female is problematic, instead of defusing. There is immediately, on that refocus, a question of who is the "more in-charge" male in the situation (since the woman couldn't possibly be running the show *snort*), whether the not-in-charge is being placed in a fully submissive position below the woman's in the interaction, and related levels of "oh shit I'm about to do something that will get me laughed at by all men and women I know at best and killed by someone who believes I'm gay at worst".

[onyxtwilight.livejournal.com]

And yet, straight porn is full of it (scenes with two or more men and one woman, with no homosexual contact whatsoever), and no one seems to think it at all odd.

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

See my reply to the main post farther down.

[ladybarnard.livejournal.com]

I've wondered the same thing. Guys who are totally okay with MFF threesomes squick at the idea of a MMF threesome. I have no idea why. Hubby says he thinks it would only bother some guys. He doesn't reject the idea out of hand, but isn't sure. Is it because homophobia is stronger in men? Or cultural pressure to be manly? Territorialism?

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

I dunno but it bothers me to hear people say things like, "Why would you want that?" or "Huh, I guess that sort of desire surprises me coming from you." As if all women are bi and secretly want a MFF threesome. Would it be more ok coming from a bi male?

[ladybarnard.livejournal.com]

That is flat-out ridiculous. As if every male over the age of 12 hasn't had the two-women fantasy at some point or another. Why shouldn't we get equal time?

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

The standard answer is "Because women are allowed to have sex with other women until a guy shows up, and then the women should both be having sex with him" and related (she-A can get her-B ready for him, etc.)
It's not fair, it's not sane, but I hear more about men getting killed for being gay than women being killed for being lesbians.
I'm also more afraid of being raped by a man than a woman.
And yes, the widespread belief/wish is that all women are bi. Not that that has basis in reality; just that the prevalence and reinforcement on the two-women fantasy depends on that belief.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Biologically it makes more sense to me for there to be two men. This may be lack of participatory understanding though.

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

If the object, biologically, is to get pregnant, yes.
If the object, biologically, is to get pregnant with specific male X's child, then, MFF makes more sense, if you go the threesome route; likewise, lots of monogamous sex also makes sense.

[(Anonymous)]

Not even thinking biological imperative to procreate. Simple hydraulics. A woman can be ready for more sex than a man can. Not all women, and even then there is a limit. But you must admit a certain recharge time for males.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Apparently the Honey logged me out...

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

Recharge times vary. I know / know of men who are (or have been at some point - I'm not sure all of them were this way their whole lives) hydraulically ready for seconds and didn't ramp down immediately after orgasm; however, even they admitted they couldn't have orgasmed/ejaculated without some more activity.
So yes normally, but there's a wide damn range of humans.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Hence my confusion.

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

At least half of the threesomes+ I've been in have been more than half male. I suspect there's some sample-size error going on here...

But then, I don't have the 'traditional' cultural-squick-out to seeing another naked man in bed...

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

There's a few tonalities and scenarios to differentiate here. Based on my own experiences and gathered information, check through the following two lists, and note how the one informs the other.
1) It's desired, by men, for any woman he has sex with to be open to an MFF threesome - and preferable if she desires an MFF threesome through some latent or known bisexuality.
2) It's expected for a woman to want to be in an MMF threesome if she's a slut.
3) It's expected for a man to want to be in a MFF threesome.
4) It's understood for a man to want to be part of a group (2+) of men who are using a single woman for sexual gratification (without regards to her appreciation of the interaction)
5) It's odd for a man to want to be in an MMF threesome.
6) It's odd for a woman to want to be in a threesome.
----
1) It is OK for a man to be straight and monogamous or promiscuous.
2) It is OK for a woman to be monogamously straight or bisexual but always including a single male partner with any number of female partners. (i.e., men are allowed to be promiscuous directly or indirectly through their female partner(s))
3) It is marginally OK for a woman to be bisexual in the absence of or in supplement to a male partner.
4) It is marginally OK to unacceptable for a woman to be a lesbian [since she's not having sex with any men]
5) It is unacceptable for a man to be gay, not because he isn't having sex with women, but because he threatens the [false—ed.] identification of masculine with dominant and can potentially strip "dominant" from "masculine" for any male he chooses to be sexually interested in.

Take all of the above as being observed societal norms, as distinctly opposed to my own beliefs and opinions. Note the degree to which the second is rooted in the male comfort zone being centered around being in charge of all sexual interactions, and likewise involved in all sexual interactions.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Oddly for me, the people saying these sorts of things are not people who I would think feel that the male is necessarily in charge of sex. Think you that the societal mind has the much control over how we are perceived that even when someone doesn't believe it is still surprises them to hear the opposing view?

[siriciryon.livejournal.com]

Yes, I absolutely would believe it; I see it or variations on the theme all the time - "I espouse a set of beliefs, but do not hold them to the utmost, and you will, on asking the 'right' question, run headlong and unexpected into the place where I do not in full hold to those beliefs."

[thebruce.livejournal.com]

Oh, so many thoughts on this....

I'd done several MMF threesomes and totally given up on the possibility of there ever being an FFM for several years before it actually happened.

I don't consider it odd at all for a woman to wish for an MMF. Bona-fide bisexual males are indeed pretty rare, in any given cross section of society that I have dealings with, and all nearly males with whom I've discussed or "participated" with are "situationally" bisexual, in that either the situation dictates whether the manifestation of latent male-male desires is allowed, or they're simply having a lark, or doing it because the girl involved thinks it's hot.

And yeah, territorialism has a lot to do with it. That's a hard bit of programming to overcome, indeed.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

No male that really thought he could own me would be allowed that close to me.

Hmm, I begin to see how my force of personality could be seen as intimidating. But really its just that I know me and am comfortable with me. And I'm not willing to break my rules.

[thebruce.livejournal.com]

Note well that I'm speaking in generalities when I mention that being territorial has a lot to do with it; Robin put it in *much* better words and captured my thoughts on that exactly in her comment below. I consider getting over the competition and territorialism at an early age a major milestone in my own life.

Your energy is amazing. I hope to know you better.

[primalsilicon.livejournal.com]

Like many of the posters have commented, you last have to get over the male "ownership" of sex, which American machismo. (bullshit, but it is there.)

In response to question "Are are bi-sexual males that rare?" Well, true bisexuals of either gender are rare. According to most studies, it hovers around 1.5%, of any population. Yep one and a half percent. You'll find a larger proportion in certain communities which don't place a stigma on sexual orientation, but add to that, the percentage of people who can truly handle a multiple partner sexual encounter, and your odds really are getting low. Then we get to the last part, and yes, they really are rare, but I'm sure if you continue to look, you'll find someone to work with.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

According the Kinsey scale more people are grades of bi than true homo/hetero. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but even most (many?) homosexual people are acculturated to believe that bisexuality doesn't exist (they're 'faking', 'passing', or 'undecided'), so a lot of people don't believe that "I am attracted to people of both genders, at different times and situations" = bisexuality.

Stupid, but seems to be true.

I believe

[otterdancing.livejournal.com]

that it has a lot to do with self confidence and the alpha/beta state. One, any man is going to gauge his performance by anothers. " Will I be as good for her?" "Can I match up?" And then when you get two innately alpha types there is a need for an adjustment to sharing in that intimate space. There are not a lot of men capable of overcoming both challenges. And sometimes the emotions themselves get in the way. I have had men deny the opportunity because of their friendship with Sean.

Re: I believe

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Interesting you bring up alpha/beta. I know precious few males I could classify as alpha. Many many more females.

There is one household I know of that in all of the members including the dog there is only one alpha and that is the 6 year old daughter. Ask me how bad it is when a six year old is in charge...

Re: I believe

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Is it potentially mental logistics? It is easier for females to care for multiple people and not have their egos get in the way? I'd like to think we aren't that different but I could be very wrong. My sample size of males I have allowed myself to get that close to is rather limited. It could be that I pick guys who are different.

AND

[otterdancing.livejournal.com]

if wanting this is odd...then I fully embrace my oddity ; ) Booyah!